[ILUG-BOM] Re:Interesting topic

Q u a s i quasar@[EMAIL-PROTECTED]
Fri Sep 6 16:20:57 IST 2002


At 11:34 morn 9/5/02 -0600, JTD wrote:
>No offence meant mate. (my apologies if it did offend)

please do not apologise. This is just an argument, I do not take it 
personally and hope other dont too.

>>More precisely, that X GUI suxx ;) - i.e. for the uninitiated, it is not 
>>(very) sophisticated.
>U mean it's too sophisticated for the uninitiated.

yes, everyone who disagrees with you is uninitiated.  Most Linux users I 
have known are of the opinion that X does indeed suc.  It could be much 
better.  Maybe I am in the wrong company.

>>Note I was talking about the GUI only.  Not the underlying 
>>architecture.  And further, considering only the *GUI* aspect -
>
>that is precisely my gripe.

         I do not understand why you find the need to gripe.  In the 
beginning of the thread itself I have said that *I* & most of us here use 
GNU/Linux because we like it & are in some way computer savvy/crazy.  But 
for those who just want to use a computer as a tool (eg. my brother who is 
doing management) they *absolutely* do not care about the underlying 
architecture.
         Trying to *get* him to use Linux I started wondering about our 
efforts to promote it.  Most of us look down on someone who is not 
interested to even try to understand trivial aspects of the computing 
environment.  But the reality is there are a *lot* of such people.  And I 
started questioning our need to ask them to use Linux.  Why?  Those who 
matter to the Linux world already use Linux.  Why this "we shall save you 
from slavery" attitude?

>>eh?  if you are meaning Intel 80386 processors, you are probably right.
>
>yes that is exactly what i meant.

Intel 80386 processors have nothing to do with this argument.  The are a 
negligibly small part of the family.

>>the cheap & generic x86 processors.  Also as of today, IMHO, if you 
>>consider pure computing power, the best of the x86 family must be the 
>>most powerful.
>
>confusing ... comparing x86 to x86

Maybe I was slightly terse there.  I was talking about *all* the processors 
families in the world as of today.  Some x86 processor is the *most* 
powerful processor _generally_available_.  More than 90% of the computer 
sold in the last decade were PC's.  And >90% of those run on x86 family of 
processors.

>the systems are indeed hughe and complex but individual processors are far 
>less complex than a i386 infact they are 8 and 16 bit devices.

which has anything to do with X being grubby ?

>desktop (where it is used because of accident rather than any great 
>design) windows is good for nothing.

refer above.  As for windows being good for nothing, I disagree.  And I 
will not discuss this point again, as it is beyond reason to reason with 
such zealotish attitudes.  If you have valid points, put them up.  These 
dramatic dialogues sound good but dont help GNU/Linux in anyway.

>No no it's abt making a living v/s you toiling to make billy babas living.

Bill Gates has earned his money because he was smart.  He lived in this 
world and used this world's own rules to make his pile.  (note that I did 
not call him honest or dishonest.)  Dont be jealous of his success or hate 
him for it.

>>is an cartography expert.  He used to makes maps by hand in his younger 
>>days.
>excuse my ignorance but are you refering to GIS systems (is cartography a 
>subset or superset of GIS)

GIS system could be much more than mere cartographic systems.  But in the 
end they need maps of some kind or other to visually represent the data, so 
I guess they are intertwined.

>>Today he makes them with the aid of a computer.  They have spent ~7 lakhs 
>>on a software
>
>One of my aquantainces dowloaded an open source GIS system and is 
>developing numerous customised applications for clients.

no doubt about that.  My father is unfortunately in the academic 
field.  All the *free* or *free to try* products which they have 
ordered/downloaded have not proved to be of any great use.  MapInfo and 
Vertical mapper have features which are *way* too sophisticated compared to 
the *free* ones.  Unlike wordprocessors, these products cater to very 
specialized problem domains and have a very niche market and hence the 
*free* versions are not that easy to develop/maintain/use.

>>1. Will my software run on Linux or is there a equivalent s/w on Linux?
>
>See what happens if u use windows

they are using the above mentioned products on windows for the past 2 years 
with great ease and no problems (related to that software).

>>4. Will *I* be able to manage Linux as I am the most computer savvy person
>clip
>case of cart before the horse.

absolutely not. Rather the case of - if I cannot drive a car and/or cannot 
afford to hire a driver then is it wise to buy one?

>>5. We have about only 10 PC's, so we cannot afford an engeneer/sysadmin.
>Sys admin? what for.

"who is going to install/configure the whole thing?  we are not computer 
people and though we would love to learn we hardly have the time"

>>6. When we have spent 7 lakhs on MapInfo we did not mind spending 5-10Kz 
>>on Windowz.
>is that all. No mail server, no firewall, no word processing, no spread sheet?

"we use our university server for mail & some free mail client, free 
firewall & free *office for windows"

>>-- and most importantly --
>>7. It works fine on windows, what advantage will I get on Linux ?
>Using windows is the bait. The trap lies ahead (but that is a much hacked 
>story)

all this conspiracy theory is amusing to say the least.

>>I think we were trying to discuss ways to promote Linux?
>Dispelling scepticism in potential software and technical personnel is 
>what i thought.

Then I must beg you pardon.  I was under the impression we were talking 
about ways of promoting Linux among the world in general.

>As for converting desktop pc it will happen on it's own with a little 
>change in X some in Y and some more in Z.

which was all I was talking about in the first place.

>The only limitation of Linux is brand equity.

It is the best "brand" for me and a lot of people.  and I dont really care 
about others.  If I had to choose only one OS for my PC, I would go in for 
Debian GNU/Linux.  period.  (this does not change my opinion that X is grubby)

>The day somone decides to spend mega bucks on promoting linux the door 
>would shut on widows.

That would be the day it would be no longer "cool".. and maybe that would 
be the day I shift from GNU/Linux.  It would be sad indeed.

quasi





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