[ILUG-BOM] Re: [OT] Interesting Conversation

Q u a s i quasar@[EMAIL-PROTECTED]
Sat Sep 7 01:04:56 IST 2002

I seem to have tread on many a toe here.  But that never got me down... so 
let me continue so that the cluless newbies you so mention at the end of 
this mail get another opinion at least - and then they have a *choice* to 
choose from... :)

At 10:24 morn 9/6/02 +0530, TH wrote:
>That's not a merit of Windows or a demerit of Linux. That's the result of 
>Microsoft's monopolistic stranglehold on the market. You can run "any dam" 
>souncard in Windows because the vendor of that card ships drivers for 
>Windows with it. How many cards can you plug into WinXP
>and run them without vendor provided software? BTW, some of the reputed 
>hardware vendors are now shipping Linux drivers with their products, 
>nVIDIA, for instance.

Because Linux user base is growing.  Because it makes business sense.  Not 
because they have had a soft corner for the open people.  If tomorrow 
Windows user base shrinks to <1% I am sure these same vendors will stop 
supporting it.  Sure, Microsoft had a monopoly on the market, which is 
changing now (thanks to open source), but *that* was the result of how our 
society does business.  Microsoft is not to blame.  Did you know what it 
costs for treatment of Hepatitis B treatment with top of the line US made 
drugs?  A couple of lakhs.  So if my maid gets H-B tomorrow, she dies.  She 
dies even when the manufacturing cost of the drugs may be only a few 
thousand rupees at the most.  That is how the current world works.  Sure is 
not great.  But...

>I agree that that X Windows is not the God of all GUI systems. Nor is MS 
>Windows' GUI. Not the Mac either. Everyone of them has shortcomings. What 
>hurts the most is that people use such generalized and derogatory words as 
>"suxx" to degrade the efforts of brilliant programmers who are trying to 
>make things better so that getting stuck into a monopoly is not as "easy" 
>or "natural" as it is today. The word "suxx" has a really strong 
>implication. I don't recall anyone saying "Windows suxx" in this thread.

Ummmmm...  I thought suxx was an infinitely more friendly term then the 
cold "windows is good for nothing" quote by some senior member.  I seem to 
be on the Windows side, but if you (had) looked closer all I was doing was 
arguing points against windows which were contrived (IMHO).  I have been 
using Linux for long and appreciate the "brilliant programmers" who are 
doing a wonderful job by giving us their time.  There was a time when for 
long stretches I had only Linux running on my machine.  I hated windows 
95.  But I loved M$Dos.  I learned my programming on Dos and had the most 
fun till date experimenting/hacking.  I hated win 3.11 but I came to like 
windows 98SE because in my experience it did what is does in a good 
way.  Is that a crime or is stating this in a Linux Group a Crime.  Anyway 
I mentioned in only as an aside.  The argument started on some different 
point altogether.

>This brings us to the issue of criticizing Linux on this forum. Indeed 
>criticizing is positive but to what extent is some critique helpful?

All this thread and previous thread are about morality/ethics/philosophy 
and are not technical for anyone to claim their correctness or 
falsehood.  These are also important as, much of what Linux is about, is 
the philosophy.

>Do we have anyone on this list who's directly involved with the 
>development of X or any of the Window Managers or Desktop Environments?

Does that mean only those who develop are supposed to talk about it?  There 
are developer mailing lists for that.

>The best form of criticism is submitting bug reports to the developers. 
>That, dear users of Linux, is what makes you hope for improvements in what 
>you get.

I agree.  But that is an action you should do, if you can.  It has nothing 
to do with a discussion here.  But do you know that to send any worthwhile 
bug report manually you need some technical competence?  Sending "hey my X 
hangs on startup" does not help.  Most of the people who actually test and 
report bugs closely follow the development.

>This list also has people who are newbies and are here to get a 
>clue.  What message do we send out to them when we make grossly subjective 
>statements about some rough edges of a part of Linux? And what message do 
>we send to them when we whine like losers against the monopoly that
>Microsoft is?

More than that, the whining against "closed" software which is made out to 
be evil.

>Linux may not be the best OS. Rather it *is not* the best OS. But it is 
>good enough for anyone who wants to break free from the monopoly - and I 
>mean _anyone_ when I say anyone.

Amen !  (again, Amen !!)

if I have tread on some sensitive toes, I say sorry and am willing to 
compensate with some balm. ;-D

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